Author Topic: Type XXVII (Seehund) - General topic  (Read 4357 times)

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Offline Islandern

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Re: Type XXVII (Seehund) - General topic
« Reply #15 on: 09 Mar , 2018, 06:52 »
Thanks David - I will keep that in mind, though by now I have done fairly much of the buildings, paintings left. The book tips is highly interesting anyway. I bought the "Midget submarines of the second world war, by Paul Kemp" recently. It has very good information also, specially the GA plans in the end.

Thanks for the photos Natter, some of them I have not seen before.
I think you are correct, I have not seen any originaly colour photos, or remainings of the seehund in its original colour either.
My own conclusion is that, as this was used in the later part of the war, and built in the same yards as the larger subs, I don't se any reasons fot that the same colours was used for them, as they was close by anyway. Most black and white photos I have seen shows a light colour, thefore I will go with the "Hellgrau 50 normal". A light grey colour.

I try to add some picture to this post, and then you can see how my project is developing. 

I have bought some PE upgrade sets for it, and I have also made some modification to it to make it fit.

Some modifications you can see is,
Cut out flooding holes around, including tower, made the tower slight higher to fit with the internal conning tower, wood fender under the torpedo, torpedo railings. I tried to edit resin rivets in the compass and air inlet, and hinges at the hatch.

On the hatch, i drilled it out, tried to make a glass cupole out of clear styrene sheet (this was unbelievable tricky!), but now you can look through the bubble and down in to the sub. I also added the handle for the hatch and hinges to it.

It looks like most seehunds was equipped with mooring eylets so I added them also.

The rudder is PE upgrade.

I hope the end result will be good. I know I am a slow builder but I do it step by step and I have to add also that I am only on dry land half year as I work at sea.

Next time I'm at home, i will paint and weather, and building the torpedoes.

I have to add that I am a true beginner and that this is my second real model.


Hope you find it interesting.


Have a good weekend,


Anders
« Last Edit: 09 Mar , 2018, 07:02 by Islandern »

Offline Natter

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Re: Type XXVII (Seehund) - General topic
« Reply #16 on: 09 Mar , 2018, 07:15 »
My own conclusion is that, as this was used in the later part of the war, and built in the same yards as the larger subs, I don't se any reasons fot that the same colours was used for them, as they was close by anyway. Most black and white photos I have seen shows a light colour, thefore I will go with the "Hellgrau 50 normal". A light grey colour.
That might be a reasonable approach.

I have no special knowledge on the topic, but you should consider one noticeable difference between the ordinary and midget submarines: They had very different areas of operations. Midget submarines were limited in both range and diving-depths, and operated mainly in littoral waters (ie close to the shore, in narrow fiords and harbours). They had a different need for camouflage because of this (don't forget that midget submarines were primary moved by road on trailers as well). Of course, there's also a difference operating in the North Sea/ English Channel or the Mediterranean...

The Seehund was perhaps more of an "intermediate" vessel compared to for instance a Type VII and a Biber, but nevertheless... (the french navy used the Seehund for several years after the war, and they painted them black, as is a common colour used for submarines today with dark blue and dark green).
« Last Edit: 09 Mar , 2018, 07:25 by Natter »

Offline Natter

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Re: Type XXVII (Seehund) - General topic
« Reply #17 on: 09 Mar , 2018, 07:18 »
Next time I'm at home, i will paint and weather, and building the torpedoes.
Hope you do some research on the torpedoes (for instance: http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=407.0 ), as NO modelmanufacturer has torpedoes that are close to the real thing (and I will not begin commenting on their ridicilus paint-instructions... :-( ).

It's sad to see all the fantastic skills employed in builiding great submarine and E-boat models, with the overall impression being destroyed by the "fantasy" torpedes...
« Last Edit: 09 Mar , 2018, 07:22 by Natter »

Offline Islandern

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Re: Type XXVII (Seehund) - General topic
« Reply #18 on: 14 Mar , 2018, 12:19 »
Hi Natter, I appreciate your contribution of knowledge to this thread.

Yes, for sure the Seehund had other operational tasks then the larger subs. I think you can consider it to have a somewhat larger operational area then some of the other midget submarines.

However, the torpedoes is an interesting topic. I have read through that thread once, and I think you and me has been discussing torpedoes in the later part of the thread regarding the colours and markings.

I accually don't know so much regarding the torpedos used on the seehund, and there is not many original photos of them with torpedos mounted.

Here is a link from a stranded Seehund in Belgium, early veresion. Some pictures shows little of the torpedoes.
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205026376

I just built the kit torpedoes that came with the model, and I realized how dull they are, so I decided to get the next best I could find, resin torpedoes from https://www.cmkkits.com/en/ships/ww-ii-german-torpedo-type-g7e-3-pcs/.

To mension from your comment above, you dislike them. Can you tell why?
I don't have so deep knowledge to tell whats wrong, but like to know so I can add or modify them.

The other I looked at whas the PE torpedos from Griffon models, but I am way to much of a beginner to handle all of that PE. :)

I also have hard times to understand if the seehund had the G7e T1/2/3 mounted, or maybe that varied over time.


Comments on the Seehund and torpedoes are welcome.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: 14 Mar , 2018, 12:23 by Islandern »

Offline Natter

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Re: Type XXVII (Seehund) - General topic
« Reply #19 on: 20 Mar , 2018, 14:05 »
Hi Natter, I appreciate your contribution of knowledge to this thread.
Just happy to contribute if I can (I'm no expert though).

Quote from: Islandern
I accually don't know so much regarding the torpedos used on the seehund, and there is not many original photos of them with torpedos mounted.
Quote from: Islandern
I also have hard times to understand if the seehund had the G7e T1/2/3 mounted, or maybe that varied over time.
According to german records, the Seehund was only operational with two torpedoes: The G7e(TIIIc) and the G7e(TIIIe) "Kreuzotter". These were almost identical, and exterior-wise the only difference was the type of warhead/pistol and slightly differently formed siderudders (the "Kreuzotter" used the more advanced Kb2 warhead and TZ5 pistol).

The Seehund was also successfully tested with the wireguided G7e(TXa) "Spinne", and was scheduled to be equipped with this torpedo in july/august 1945 (it never happened for obvious reasons).

Quote from: Islandern
Here is a link from a stranded Seehund in Belgium, early veresion. Some pictures shows little of the torpedoes.
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205026376
You can see more of the photos here: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=seehund

Quote from: Islandern
I just built the kit torpedoes that came with the model, and I realized how dull they are, so I decided to get the next best I could find, resin torpedoes from https://www.cmkkits.com/en/ships/ww-ii-german-torpedo-type-g7e-3-pcs/.
To mension from your comment above, you dislike them. Can you tell why?
It's hard to judge the drawings, but in general, the "normal" errors found in german torpedoes are:
 * Wrong colors (always...)
 * Design of the hull (typically using a "generic" G7a or G7e hull paired with the opposite tail)
 * Faulty design of the pistol
 * Faulty design of the propellers
 * Faulty design of the tailpiece/rudders
 * For the G7e torpedoes it's also very common to have 4-blade propellers + "rivets" on the battery and enginecompartment hatches.
 * Missing netcutters on torpedoes for midget submarines (of course, they might have used torpedoes without netcutters - evidence exists in photos, but by default they should use torpedoes with netcutters).

There are plenty of photos available online, so most of these errors should be quite easy to correct by altering the model.