Author Topic: Are the Colors of this U-505 U-boat Model Accurate?  (Read 1413 times)

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Offline phillip1

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Greetings Fellow Modelers,

Attached are three photos of a built up Revell 1/72 Type IXC U-505 U-boat model.  I did not build this, and do not know who built it or when.  I found these on the Internet while looking for information on U-505’s paint colors at the time of her capture in 1944.  I think the colors used by the builder look awesome, but I do not know if they are accurate.  They appear to be medium blue/gray below the waterline, very light gray above the waterline, very dark gray on the deck and very dark blue on the conning tower.  I have read U-boat expert Dougie Martindale’s article on the U-505’s colors.  Even if you accept that U-505 and U-858 (photo attached) had the same paint scheme, it appears there are still some color choice unknowns that require guessing (much like the argument over which color green to use for John F. Kennedy’s PT-109). 

Any modeler who has knowledge about this subject, please post and let me know if you think the colors used in the attached model photos are accurate.  Thanks in advance for the help.

Phillip1




Offline SG

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Re: Are the Colors of this U-505 U-boat Model Accurate?
« Reply #1 on: 01 May , 2016, 12:31 »
Phillip1,
here's the link to the outstanding book "U505: modification, colour & insigna" by Dougie Martindale that you can download for free. You'll find the answers to your questions on pages 43-44. You'll see that the exact painting scheme of U 505 is still uncertain and there are different possibilities/theories. Dougie did a very thorough study and his personal opinion convinces me 100% though. But of course  the decision about the painting scheme is personal and any of the two plausible options is allowed (as always in modelling, in my opinion). Maybe in the model there's too much contrast between upper hull and tower (upper hull color doesn't look like blaugrau58/1 to me, just misses that blueish shade and the tower's color looks a bit too dark, still the model IS top notch to my eyes).
 http://amp.rokket.biz/lib_uboats.shtml
Cheers
SG


 
« Last Edit: 01 May , 2016, 13:01 by SG »

Offline dougie47

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Re: Are the Colors of this U-505 U-boat Model Accurate?
« Reply #2 on: 01 May , 2016, 16:36 »
Hi gents,

I really like this model. The figures on the bow really bring a bit of colour and life to the scene. I particularly like the tower. With the exception of the red emblem (I've gone for a green version) this tower looks very similar indeed to my model, with the same dark blue colour with very heavy peeling.

Also like the whitish patches on the upper hull, which I went for too.

The lower hull looks okay but could do with more weathered appearance, with scumline etc. It does look a bit too blue in the photo but that could just be the photo.

The upper grey looks a bit light but this is all about personal opinions.

I also like the damage to the front of the tower. What is not that noticeable in some photos (but evident in others) is that the forward deck railings on both sides were damaged in the attack.

If anyone knows who built this then please say so we can give credit to the builder.

Cheers,

Dougie

Offline phillip1

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Re: Are the Colors of this U-505 U-boat Model Accurate?
« Reply #3 on: 02 May , 2016, 11:31 »
SG-Thanks for your response and opinion.  They are appreciated.

Dougie47-Thanks for responding to the post.  Your comments are very helpful.  I do plan on buying the correct emblem/draft number decals when I build this model.  Based on your opinion, if I use colors "close" to what is shown in the photos then the scheme should be considered accurate (based on the information/research available at this time), right?

Thanks again.

Phillip1

Offline dougie47

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Re: Are the Colors of this U-505 U-boat Model Accurate?
« Reply #4 on: 02 May , 2016, 16:04 »
Hi Phillip,

Yes, using paints close to the colour shot would be the way to go.

If you are depicting U 505 when captured you will have to go to town on the paint peeling on the tower. It is quite fun but does make for quite a different looking model. Note that there was even peeling on the emblem so when I did mine I painted over some parts of the emblem with silver. This peeling was only evident on the outer surfaces of the tower so the tower railings and guns did not exhibit this peeling.

The other thing to remember is the draught markings. When I did them I weathered them a lot too. A few of the small draught number I painted out because they either were scuffed off or were hidden under the scumline at the waterline.

Cheers,

Dougie

Offline phillip1

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Re: Are the Colors of this U-505 U-boat Model Accurate?
« Reply #5 on: 02 May , 2016, 20:03 »
Dougie,

Thanks again for the response (and your tremendous researching efforts).  I want my U-505 model to look much less weathered and beaten up than the day of her capture-closer to what she would have looked like shortly after she received this last paint scheme.  I will include SOME rusting, chipping and discoloration.  A couple of weeks ago I posted photos on this site of my 1/72 Gato submarine (U.S.S. Cobia) which shows the amount of weathering I usually add to my submarine models.  Thanks again for taking the time to help me.

Phillip1

Offline Rokket

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Re: Are the Colors of this U-505 U-boat Model Accurate?
« Reply #6 on: 03 May , 2016, 03:27 »
You can't get any better than Dougie's knowledge and research.

If this helps at all, in either "Clear the Bridge!" (Richard O'Kane) or "Thunder Below!" (Eugene Fluckey), one of those USN captain's gets to Midway and looks at their boat and thinks something like "wow, this all black boat [measure 9 paint scheme] is practically light gray and chipped like crazy", and the same in "Iron Coffins" (Herbert Werner) for the Gremans. Basically, after only weeks at sea, all the boats got sun and salt faded and massively chipped. And paint in the 1940w wasn't as high tech as today. But the sea is harsh!
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Offline phillip1

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Re: Are the Colors of this U-505 U-boat Model Accurate?
« Reply #7 on: 04 May , 2016, 10:36 »
Rokket,

I agree that Dougie's U-boat knowledge/research is impressive, and widely respected across multiple model sites on the Internet.  I also agree that paint chipping is very common with operational WWII submarines.   

Thanks

Phillip1

Offline Rokket

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Re: Are the Colors of this U-505 U-boat Model Accurate?
« Reply #8 on: 16 May , 2016, 02:17 »
Howdy Phillip - I'm printing this to show my wie that at least another human on the planet agrees with me about something! ;D
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Offline phillip1

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Re: Are the Colors of this U-505 U-boat Model Accurate?
« Reply #9 on: 14 Jul , 2016, 12:33 »
Fellow Modelers,

I am at the point in my build where I should be painting my U-505 model in the next few weeks.  Based on Dougie's information I have pinned down the colors I want to use (below).  I airbrush with Model Master paints almost exclusively, so I would like to get some help on determining a "close" match for the colors given below:

>Upper Hull-Blaugrau 58/1 (Model Master comparable color-____________)
>Lower Hull-Schiffsbodenfarbe III Grau1 (Model Master comparable color-_____________)
>Conning Tower-Blauschwartz 58/2 (Model Master comparable color-I will use either use Insignia Blue 1719 or Flat Sea Blue 1718)
>Horizontal Deck-Dunkelgrau 53 (Model Master comparable color-I am considering using Euro I Gray 1988)

I appreciate any suggestions on which Model Master colors I should use.

Thanks

Phillip1

Offline dougie47

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Re: Are the Colors of this U-505 U-boat Model Accurate?
« Reply #10 on: 24 Jul , 2016, 13:48 »
Hi Phillip,

I have been away on holiday so I have not had the opportunity to respond earlier.

I am just going by the Federal Standard codes given on the Model Master website rather than any real knowledge of the paints. From these codes I would recommend -

>Upper Hull-Blaugrau 58/1 (Model Master comparable color-Dark Grey (F-15) FS36176 Flat 4754. Note: This is the closest I could find to FS36152 (36152 is pretty close to Blaugrau 58/1) If you want a perfect match you could try Lifecolor UA609 but I know you want to stick with Model Master.

>Lower Hull-Schiffsbodenfarbe III Grau1 (Model Master comparable color- Engine Grey FS36076 Flat 4749

>Conning Tower-Blauschwartz 58/2 (Model Master comparable color-I will use either use Insignia Blue 1719 or Flat Sea Blue 1718)  Insignia Blue FS35044 would work well.

>Horizontal Deck-Dunkelgrau 53 (Model Master comparable color-I am considering using Euro I Gray 1988)
This would be a good base but you could dry brush on some brown in the worn areas.

It might be an idea to test these colours on a blank piece of plastic to see what they look like compared to the colour shots of U 505.

Hope this helps,

Dougie

 

Offline phillip1

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Re: Are the Colors of this U-505 U-boat Model Accurate?
« Reply #11 on: 27 Jul , 2016, 11:16 »
Dougie,

>Thanks once again for a tremendously helpful response.  It is just what I needed.  I do have a question for you.  Do you think U-505 had the same paint scheme on its next-to-last patrol that it did on its last patrol (when the early shell conning tower emblem was used)?

>FYI... concerning the "mystery" U-505 model photos posted at the beginning of this thread, I did find out the following:
-The model was built by John Ezzo.  He lives near Princeton, NJ (USA) and built it in 2014.  There are "in progress build" photos and text on how he built this model at imodeler.com (for anyone interested).

Thanks

Phillip1

Offline dougie47

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Re: Are the Colors of this U-505 U-boat Model Accurate?
« Reply #12 on: 29 Jul , 2016, 14:00 »
Hi Phillip,

There is a photo on page 42 of my U 505 article which shows the boat on its penultimate patrol. I would not like to be sure but my guess is that the conning tower is probably Blaugrau 58/1 or perhaps the Schlickgrau 58 (with the upper colour probably the same grey). This is because the grey looks much lighter than the black on the flotilla emblem. But I'm far from certain about this.

Cheers,

Dougie

Offline phillip1

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Re: Are the Colors of this U-505 U-boat Model Accurate?
« Reply #13 on: 29 Jul , 2016, 20:27 »
Dougie,

Would your best "guess" be that the dark blue was applied to the conning tower after U-505 came back to port after the penultimate patrol, but before last patrol?

Thanks

Phillip1

Offline dougie47

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Re: Are the Colors of this U-505 U-boat Model Accurate?
« Reply #14 on: 30 Jul , 2016, 09:44 »
Hi Phillip,

Yes, that is right. My guess is that the dark blue was added prior to the final patrol.

One thing we can be more sure of is that there was a change to the emblem at this time (just prior to the final patrol). During the final patrol the shell had a shield background but during the penultimate patrol the shell was there but without the shield. It is purely speculative on my part but if there was a change to the dark blue tower then maybe this was one of the reasons for the introduction of the shield background.

Cheers,

Dougie