Corrections to 05133 kit to accurately make U-190

[dougie47]

Hello all,

This isn't about corrections but is related because it is about paint colours of U 190.

Photos show the paint on the upper hull was very badly peeling from the tower of U 190 when it surrendered in Canada. The KM had a real problem with paint adhesion on IX towers and there are others in 1944 and 1945 with the same peeling problem. Note that the paint did not peel from the snort pipe or 37mm shield as they were different types of metal.

Due to the poor condition of the paint on the tower, U 190 was repainted in Canadian colours. When I was researching my paint colour article over a decade ago, a researcher kindly took photographs of artifacts belonging to U 190 at the Maritime Command Museum in Halifax. These artifacts had both the original KM paint and the Canadian light grey used upon U 190. The researcher was thoughtful enough to take photos of these artifacts beside Snyder & Short Kriegsmarine paint cards to allow for proper comparison. The photos show that the Canadian light grey is very similar to RAL7038 (not actually RAL7038 as the paint is Canadian rather than German). When I cross-referenced my RAL7038 colour card with my Federal Standard fandeck it appear that this colour is close to FS36492. That is the colour which I reckon should be used if you are modelling U 190 after repaint. Note that Xtracolour X147 is this colour.

I can't help with the lower hull colour. I presume that U 190 was repainted in dry-dock and that the lower hull was painted by Canadian workmen. But what colour they used is a mystery to me.

Cheers,

Dougie

[GlennCauley]

Thank you, Dougie... that is very worthwhile information indeed.   Colours info is always required.   

I wonder if they painted a thick black bootline, and red bottom?     ( *snicker*  sorry, couldn't resist )

Wondering if there is a good colour reference for the paints used by Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) to indicate what colours they might have painted subs below waterline.

[dougie47]

Hi Glenn,

My guess for the lower hull would be black.

I'm not sure whether U 190 was painted in St John's or Halifax, my guess would be Halifax, but both were, I think, used as a base for RCN Flower class corvettes. The RCN corvettes used Royal Navy camouflage colours such as RN Western Approaches camouflage. The lower hull colour of RCN corvettes is debatable. Some may have been RN anti-fouling red (without a black bootline) but there was definitely some (probably the majority) that had black lower hulls. 

I don't think the RCN had their own submarines in WWII so there may not have been a precedent to rely upon when painting U 190. When the yard in Halifax(?) painted U 190 I am guessing they might have used the same colours as they used on RCN corvettes. When it came to the lower hull, maybe they used the same colour (black) that they were used to applying to the lower hull of corvettes.

There is one photo after painting of U 190 in the water which shows a little bit of the lower hull paint. There's nothing that can be determined from that photo other than it looks very dark (or black).

Cheers,

Dougie 

[GlennCauley]

Liferaft containers on tower:
Kit instructions show ammo containers (?) on lower wintergarten:  3 port, 2 stbd, shield walls
Is this correct?    or should only be 2 port ammo containers?
Do liferaft containers go here?    how many per side, location?

UPDATE 10-Dec-2015

Ammo lockers on wintergarten deck:

• 2 lockers on PORT side (not 3)
• 3 lockers on STBD side (not 2)
  (Revell used tower from U-505 kit, but U-190 had the deck ammo lockers swapped)
• Single ammo locker at rear middle of upper deck (behind the twin 20mm guns) did not have a shield around it.

Liferaft lockers:

• No liferaft lockers on wintergarten deck.
• No liferaft lockers on foredeck.
• Must add prominent lateral liferaft locker hatch on bottom rear of wintergarten tower... sticks out perpendicular to tower (boat centerline) on STBD side only.

[GlennCauley]

It's nice to have friends around the world who are willing to help out a modelling brother.   
Thanks to them, I have PE sets on the way for U-190... including a wintergarten deck with swapped ammo locker positions.    Woot woot!

[SG]

Well done Glenn! .. and don't forget the 4 pressurized-air cylinders on the lower wintergarten!

[Capt Kremin]

Hi Glenn, SG et al,


A couple of more pictures for you, the first is the U 190 and U 889 at Halifax, good view of the wintergarten highlighting the tops of the hydrogen tanks and the 3 ready ammo lockers on the starboard side. As for the upper platform guns, remember that they were removed before painting and so the mounts and shields may not be the originals.


Secondly a poster advertising the display of the U 190 at Sutherland Pier, Montreal from the 28th July (45?). It is posible that someone may have taken photos of her at the time. Possibly even colour photos, whilst the colours would be wrong for the wartime boat, maybe a local call for  photos, I'm looking at Glenn for that, at least you are in the right country, it might make an interesting model in post war colours and could make a partner for Glenn's U 505.

Third attachment is a map locating Sutherland Pier, I believe it has changed names since 1945.

Regards
Jon

[SG]

Good catch Jon! I was already familiar with the top photo, thats where i had seen the 4 hydrogen containers mistakenly identified as compressed air cylinders. Were they supplying the hydrogen for the aphrodite device?

[Capt Kremin]

Hi SG et al


The primary use for hydrogen on the type IX boats was for met balloons, however the U 190 would have carried and probably used aphrodite.


regards
Jon

[GlennCauley]

I think I have most of what I need to actually begin this build.    Mwah haa haaaaaaaa
Sadly, I have more of a personal interest in building this boat than my already-started U-505 project.   (Don't Kill Me.)

One thing I am perplexed about... with the advances in slide mold technology, why could Revell not mold the Balcongerat as 1 piece?!?!?     It is in 3 pieces, and to fill & sand the seams will require sanding off all the detector nubs.    I drilled out the nubs near the seams, and will replace them with 0.040" rod.  But what a PITA.   

Luckily 3 of the 4 sections of my U-505 inner pressure hull will work on U-190. The forward inner bulkhead & hull are different.  Not too bad. 
I have also re-assessed my earlier plans to make support structures for the PE deck sections.   I will greatly simplify them, and NOT 'swiss cheese' the base plates with drainage holes.
Why?   The holes will never been seen, and having the support plate intact will make it much sturdier. 

The drainage holes seemed like a good idea in theory, but in practice would greatly tax my building skills & patience, with little pay off.  (Frankly, this is what stalled my U-505 build.)
So I will make 0.030" support plates using the OEM deck as a template, and will add support ribs beneath the PE deck to raise it to the proper height.

[Capn Tucker]

Revell probably has plans to release either a U-505 (early) or just an early Type IXC at some point. Likely that kit will have a keel insert to replace the Balkon G. That way they only have to make one set of hull halves for both early and late IXCs..

[GlennCauley]

Rather than overthink the whole process of how to mount the PE deck, I dove right in and actually started to work with the pieces.
I soon realized that simple methods are much easier & less stressful than the overly-complicated ways I had tried to plan out.
Amazingly, I was able to make some quick progress and actually completed 1 deck section rather quickly.

Using 0.030" styrene, I made baseplates that matched the kit deck... and it's a LONG deck.
There was lots of tracing, scribing, and sanding to make baseplates that fit the hull, and match the PE decks that sit atop of them.
After cutting a PE deck section from the sheet (and trimming to size), I used CA to glue 'ribs" underneath the PE deck to raise it off the baseplate to the proper height.   Careful placement of the ribs was necessary to ensure they were not visible through the holes/gap in the PE deck. For the riser ribs, I used Evergreen #8204 HO scale 2x4  (0.022" thick, 0.043" high).
The deck "sandwiches" would bring the PE deck to the proper height in the hulls.   Bazinga!

Then I had to take the plunge and start cutting up the kit deck... aaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhh!!!   
I needed to cut out the schnorkel well, and also the 2 torpedo storage tube bulges on the rear deck.

No turning back now!

[OldNoob]

That looks great Glen!

[Capt Kremin]

Hi Glenn,

Hate to tell you this the torpedo storage tube bulges are the exhaust silencer covers the torpedo storage area was between the torpedo trolley rails, see attached.

The under deck torpedo stage area ceased to be used during 1944, the time period seems to vary widely depending on the individual boat.

Regards
Jon

[GlennCauley]

   No needing to hate telling me that... good to know!