Glenn Cauley's build of U-505 (Turm IV refit)

[GlennCauley]

For anyone using the thin PE deck, there will need to be support under it to bring it up to the proper height in the hull.   

Several ideas are floating around, with one being to "skeletonize" the stock plastic deck and then apply the thin PE deck atop it.   That will work, but there will be a LOT of cutting away of the plastic so the holes in the PE are not blocked. 

Just because I am a glutton for punishment, I have started laying out frameworks for hole cutouts below the sections of the thin PE deck.
I started with Deck B.   When I printed it out, and then laid Deck B atop the plan, it actually works... none of the holes are blocked!

PDF:
http://www.travel-net.com/~gcauley/U505/files/Deck_B_holes.pdf

PNG:
http://www.travel-net.com/~gcauley/U505/files/Deck_B_holes.png

CDR (source vector drawing):
http://www.travel-net.com/~gcauley/U505/files/Deck_B_holes.cdr

[GlennCauley]

I have found a company relatively close to me (in eastern Ontario) that will laser cut sheet styrene based on a vector drawing.

I am going to ATTEMPT to create the underdeck support structures this way.
I just have to design the vector drawings, supply the 0.060" styrene sheet, and the cost is fairly reasonable.   

IF this works, it will be great for those using the thin PE deck!
I will see if the company will keep the project files, so that others can get the same thing done.
If it doesn't work, oh well...

More news as it happens, likely in the New Year.

[GlennCauley]

I made the choice to use Eduard's new 10,5cm deck gun (Brassin #672053) instead of the RCSubs deck gun.
The detail on the Eduard gun is incredible!

I am dubious about the size of Eduard gun, though.
The Eduard gun is about 20% larger than the RCSubs gun.  And the circular base plate is larger than the matching location on the Revell kit deck.
Hmmmmmmm.........
See the comparison pics below.



In the Eduard gun, flat PE is used for the gunner brace supports.   It does not look realistic at all.
So I decided to make my own out of 0.019" brass wire and very fine brass tubing (0.9mm OD).
I had to drill out the brass tubing slightly with a #75 drill bit, and then the brass wire fits perfectly.
The hardest part was cutting the brass tubing pieces to size, and then soldering one very small piece at 45° to the other.  I used solder paste and a propane micro hot air blower.
In the detail pics, a dime is used to show the size of the soldered pieces.

[dougie47]

Hi Glenn,

Thanks for the photos.

I've had a look at side views of 105mms and the first plan seems to suggest a full length of 66.9 mm. A second plan suggests a full length of 66.7mm. We could take an average between the two and come up with 66.8mm. Let's call this size A.

The length of the gun base for the 105mm is, according to the first plan 19.4mm, and according to the second plan is 19.0mm. We could take an average between the two and come up with 19.2mm. Let's call this size B.

Can you measure the full length of both size A (full length of entire weapon) and size B (length of gun base) for both the Eduard and RCSubs versions and tell us what they are?

For the shape of the base, there are quite a few differences between Eduard and RCSubs. At both the front and rear of the base, the Eduard looks quite like the 105mm in period photos. At the rear, the RCSubs looks more like an 88mm base than the 105mm (the shape of the base was different between the 88 and 105).

Cheers,

Dougie
 

[GlennCauley]

Hi Dougie,

I took a bunch of measurements of both the Eduard and RCSubs deck guns.

I've had a look at side views of 105mms and the first plan seems to suggest a full length of 66.9 mm. A second plan suggests a full length of 66.7mm. We could take an average between the two and come up with 66.8mm. Let's call this size A.  Can you measure the full length of size A (full length of entire weapon) for both the Eduard and RCSubs versions and tell us what they are?

(A) Full length of gun (from barrel end to back of breech block)
Eduard:  79.55 mm
RCSubs: 66.8 mm

The length of the gun base for the 105mm is, according to the first plan 19.4mm, and according to the second plan is 19.0mm. We could take an average between the two and come up with 19.2mm. Let's call this size B. Can you measure the full length of size B (length of gun base) for both the Eduard and RCSubs versions and tell us what they are?

(B) Length of base (cradle)
Eduard:  22.7 mm
RCSubs: 17.8 mm

For the shape of the base, there are quite a few differences between Eduard and RCSubs. At both the front and rear of the base, the Eduard looks quite like the 105mm in period photos. At the rear, the RCSubs looks more like an 88mm base than the 105mm (the shape of the base was different between the 88 and 105).

Gun cradle shape
Eduard:  rounded front, pointed rear
RCSubs: rounded front, flat rear


Gun cradle width (across flat parts of gun pivots)
Eduard:  10.0 mm
RCSubs:  7.6 mm


Distance from bottom of cradle to middle of gun barrel pivot
Eduard:  15.3 mm
RCSubs: 12.8 mm


Distance between deck and bottom of cradle
Eduard:  3.25 mm  (height of circular pivot base)
RCSubs:  N/A  (the round base plate at bottom of cradle goes onto deck)


Round base below gun cradle - largest outer dia. (where it meets deck)
Eduard:  15.5 mm dia.
RCSubs:  11.9 mm dia.


Circular base plate on Revell kit deck
12.2 mm dia

[dougie47]

Hi Glenn,
 
Thanks for the measurements. Looks like the Eduard version is too big (at least accodring to the main plan). You could get away with it if there were only a few mms but over 12mms of a difference is going to be noticeable. Looks like your initial concerns about the Eduard size are correct. I wonder what they based their sizes from? A different plan perhaps?

Unless someone else can find an alternate plan I'd be inclined to go with the RCSubs version.

Cheers,
 
Dougie

[GlennCauley]

This really sucks, since the detail on the Eduard gun is so much nicer.

But yes, the whole gun seems to be oversize by 20~30% !!!
The thing that really gave it away was the size of the circular base... being so much larger than the base plate on the kit deck.


I have registered a support ticket with Eduard to investigate this, referencing this thread for more information and also sending them some pictures.


I REALLY hope they take this seriously, and not just say we are wrong and ignore it. 



Thank you for your help. 

Glenn

[GlennCauley]

Here is the report I compiled, and will be submitting to Eduard.

I hope that this prompts them to correct the gun, and re-issue it with the proper dimensions.

[GlennCauley]

When I am not indulging in holiday cheer, being lazy, or at the model bench, I am busy at the computer creating complex vector drawings. 
 As previously mentioned, I am installing a detailed PE deck on my boat.  The deck is extraordinarily detailed, and is made of thin 0.008" brass and as such needs support and a way to raise it to the correct height.   (The kit plastic deck is MUCH thicker.)   I calculated that a roughly 0.060" raise should do the trick.   The PE deck instructions call for adding support beams below the PE deck to support it... but there are very few places that I can put support beams below the deck and not have any holes blocked off.     

On another site, I saw a U-505 build where the fellow cut up the kit deck to act as the support below the same PE deck.   Good idea, but a lot of grunt work, and he encountered some problems.    This gave me the initial thought about creating a substructure... but how to cut it out?!?    That's when I happened across a company... not far from me... that can do laser-cutting from vector files.   Hmmmmmmmm, interesting!   
So I have been working on creating 1:1 scale support structures for thePE deck set.    A LOT of measuring, and vector work using CorelDRAW (as I have used for other U-boat projects).   So far I have completed 3 of the 4 substructures, and the last one should only take a few hours to create from scratch.  These vector files will be sent to the laser-cutting company in the New Year along with some sheets of 0.060" sheet styrene.   They said that it SHOULD work out well, but I will be holding my breath and crossing various appendages while they do the work. 

I *REALLY* hope it works!    If it does, I will be sharing the vector files on my U-505 site so others can use it as well.


Happy New Year to everyone and your families!   

[dbauer]

  A lot of work there Glenn!
I would almost go with just supports under the deck on the hull !  I will wait to see how yours look before I say anymore. By the way Happy New Year to you up in Canada!  Remember what they said! " Watch out where the Huskies go, and don't you eat that yellow snow!"
Best Regards,
Dan 

[DerXL]

Very impressive work. Not only the model but also your hard work for the deck.
Looks great so far.

[dbauer]

  Hey Glenn!
What are your thoughts on the deck changes for the early Trum on U-505? Very different from later Trum. Also what are your thoughts on how to pull off the early Trum?  Just two more hurtles to jump my friend!
Regards,
Dan

[dbauer]

  Don't forget you will need the 3.7cm gun on the aft deck as well!
Regards,
Dan

[GlennCauley]

I really have no clue about deck changes between Turms... luckily the boat I am building uses the kit tower configuration with very little changes.   

My own build is at the latter stages of the 5X refit to the Turm IV tower, which is what the kit tower is.  The 3.7cm gun on the aft deck was gone (destroyed before the refit, and the remnants removed during the refit), the large (kit) tower was being newly installed (with the rear Vierling), and the 10.5cm deck gun was still in place.   

If you were looking to pre-date your own boat back to, say, the original Turm 0 or next Turm II, I have no idea how you would do that, nor what the changes to the deck would be.  Best to review Dougie's article on U-505, and ask him about it.

[dbauer]

   hi Glenn!
I thought you were back dating U-505 earlier than that.  I am planning to do U-154. It as the U-boot with the "Spewing Cow" emblem  .  Great pics of it with Watch in Tropical Uniforms and DAK Pith Helmets and some with ladies hats!  Thought it would make a great subject. I will have to alter the Aft deck  and include the 3.7cm in back as well.  Thinking of using a Type VII  early Trum modified for a Type IX.  Give me your thoughts on this.
Regards,
Dan