Revell Type IXC 1/72 - AMP Conning Tower Malings planned?

[schemelschelm]

Hello @all and best wishes for 2014!

I had the Revell Type IXC in 1/72 under the christmas tree and I'm interested in other decals for the boat.
Do you know, that AMP plans the release of other Turm-Malings for the IXC? I hope, there will be some different variants available?

And: The IXC from Revell has the "Turm III" - modification. How many IXC's had this conning tower variant?
I dont't know how many IXC's has this modification, but that surely limits the Maling-variants.

Greets from Germany,
Martin

[dougie47]

Hello Martin,

Happy New Year to you and indeed everyone on the AMP forum.

I think the Turm III was designed for Type VIIDs so that the mine-shafts would not be covered over by the guns or platforms. It used 2 X 2cm C/38s on a widened bridge, presumably side by side.

It is my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) but I am almost certain that U 505 had the Turm IV in June 1944. The boat cannot have had Turm III because Turm II only used 2 X 2cm guns on one platform.

By the way, U 505 had the original tower when launched, then converted to Turm II, and finally converted to Turm IV.

I can only assume that the Turm III reference in the Revell instructions is incorrect. Perhaps they thought Turm IV was specific only to Type VIICs? In any case, I think both type IXs and VIICs had Turm II and Turm IV, though the sizes of the Turms may have varied between the IX and VIIC.

For the decals, we have only just completed the design of the U 505 emblem (without red background!) and the corrected Type IX waterline draft marking decals. So I haven't really had a chance to research other emblems yet. The Revell kit is suitable for a IXC without a snorchel but with the Turm IV (so any non-snort IXCs which went on patrol during or after the summer of 1943 should be suitable). This does cut down the number of boats available.

There is a debate about whether the kit is suitable for IXC/40s as well. It may be because the size differences are small in 72nd scale and externally the boats may look virtually the same in photos. When I look at photos of the IXC U 505 and the IXC/40 U 534 I can't see any differences between them just by looking at them.

For decals, we could do the Olympic rings and axe for U 505 under Zschech. Also the 4th U-Flotille sybmbol was carried by a few so we could do that. Is there any emblem you wish to see?

Cheers,

Dougie

[schemelschelm]

Hi Dougie,

many thanks for your comment, I make the mistake to trust in Revell's explenation of the boat. 
Mmh, for example U-172 with the Poseidon looks interesting.

But I'm not sure that it has the Turm IV. 

[dougie47]

Hi Martin,

The U 172 emblem is a really good one. I would think the boat must have had a Turm IV when sunk in December 1943 but I can't be sure that the Poseidon emblem at that time. It probably did but I haven't evidence to back it up.

Cheers,

Dougie

[schemelschelm]

Hi Dougie,

very cool, that's interesting. Uboat.net says that the boat has three different emblems over it's time of duty: Poseidon, 187843 (tonnage) and leaves and cross, Motorex (white ship outline on black background of the tanker "Motorex").

Here's the link: U-172
But there the emblem pics are not visible. 

It's also interesting, because U-172 was a very succesful boat - 26 ships sunk, 152080 GRT.

[dougie47]

Hi Martin,

The Motorex was painted on the gun barrel (must be the 105mm). I'm guessing the 105mm would have been removed by the time the Turm IV was fitted.

The 187843 was probably the tonnage they thought they had sunk by a particular point, possibly the end of the penultimate patrol. Although they actually sank 152080, it was very common for crews to overestimate - this also happened with submariners in other navies too.

If we can get photographic refernce of U 172 with a Turm IV (can anybody help?) and the Poseidon then we'd draw the decals.

Cheers,

Dougie

[schemelschelm]

Hi Dougie,

I searched the insignias today and here are the results:







Source: sharkhunters.com, fallschirmjager.biz, uboataces.com

I think the last one is best for the conning tower but a bit too small, isn't it?

And here a Pic from german-uboates.com, right Turm?

[Capt Kremin]

Hi Dougie,
 
If you're going to do a sheet for the Type IX can I suggest Kptlt. Zschech emblems (Olympic rings and lion with axe) as his last patrols started with the boat in the same layout as the model is. If you're volunteering, so to speak, U 534's emblem would be nice  , here's Merseyside Transports version of it, you have already covered the Olympic rings than Merseyside have forgotten  .
 
Regards,
Jon
 

[cola]

Hi Dougie,
 
you mentioned earlier that the difference between an IXC and a IXC/40 wouldn't be noticable in 1/72 scale (if there is a difference).
If that's the case I would like to see one of the Monsun boats.
 
Either U-188 or U-532
 
If you were thinking about just the IXC, I agree with what was posted about U-172...that one's awesome.
 
Kind regards
 
 

[dougie47]

Thanks guys,

Your input is much appreciated. I've been writing an article on U-boat waterline marks so I haven't had time to go through all my books for possible emblem decals. I also want to do an article on U 505 next so studying decals will have to come after that.

I think we'll do the following -
U 505 - ninth patrol emblem (shell with no shield background)
U 505 - axe
Olympic rings - officers class of 1936 (for U 505 and other boats)
10th U-Flotille emblem - several boats including U 508 and U 510

Depending on available time I'm considering -

U 532 - very nice, not sure which version would be best.

U 534 - this would be nice. I see U 534 now has an emblem added (see http://www.u-boatstory.co.uk/Pages/default.aspx) but with a yellow shield background.

U 188 - I have no photos of the real boat but would need some to get the size and position on the boat.

U 172 - yes, very nice, I would prefer photographs to prove it was there with a Turm IV (it probably was). There is a photo of U 172 at -
http://www.ebay.de/itm/U-BOOT-KRIEG-FOTO-U-172-VON-FEINDFAHRT-VOR-KAPSTADT-ZURUCK-WAPPEN-UND-ZAHL-87843-/291045440039?pt=Militaria&hash=item43c3a8fa27&nma=true&si=2H6ICn4Fe7eOQ7gIJFRlZyNNA%252Fs%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I think the seller has the date of the U 172 photo wrong, I'm guessing it was taken later due to the high tonnage claim. But the photo doesn't show what Turm was on the boat.

Cheers,

Dougie

[dbauer]

Great work as always Dougie!
I am glad others are as excited about the Type IX as I am.  The possibilities are sounding great for more Emblems and other U-Boats other than U-505.
Looking foward to the AMP Decal sheet.
Regards,
Dan

[schemelschelm]

I am glad others are as excited about the Type IX as I am.

Hell yeah! 

@Dougie: Some pics of U-188 are in the Köhl/Niestle "Uboottyp IX C - Vom original zum Modell", but the insignia is not visible I think. I will search again tonight.

[dougie47]

Hi folks,

I thought there was something I was forgetting and I have now remembered what it was. The 37mm on the wintergarten (which is on the Revell kit) only began to be introduced starting in late October / November 1943. Due to supply problems it might have taken time for all boats to be fitted. Before the 37mm was introduced, all boats with the Turm IV had the Vierling (4 barrels).

It is possible (just) that U 172 may have had the 37mm on her last patrol but I'm not sure. Certainly, U 505 did not have the axe and Olympic rings when the boat had the 37mm.

I suspect U 505 had the 37mm fitted during the November 8 - December 20 1943 refit.

Cheers,

Dougie

[Capt Kremin]

Hi Dougie,
 
According to Hans in Steel boats, Iron Hearts the vierling was replace with the 3.7cm M42 after the 5th patrol 1st-13th July and before the 6th (aborted) patrol 1st-2nd August. Probably not that big of a job, unbolt one gun remove, refit with another, they would probably have been designed to have a common fitting bolt pattern, if not they had 2 weeks to make it fit, if there were ammunition racks inside the ready lockers then change them for the different munition. Page 145 in 2013 English paperback edition.
 
Speaking of said book, anyone want to comment on the picture on page 65 which appears to show the U505 with early Zscech tower emblems (battle axe on the side, possibly Olympic rings on the front), now for the interesting bit, 10.5cm deck gun, but not other armament?
 
regards
Jon

[dbauer]

Hi!
Any known pics of U-505 with the 2.0 cm Vierling? Or was it fitted with the 3.7 from the start of the trum IV refit ?
Dan